Lula made the comments within the context of the imprisonment and conviction of his predecessor, former President Jair Bolsonaro, last week on charges of allegedly staging a failed coup. The “evidence” the Lula government presented in the case consisted in part in the eruption of a riot against his return to power on January 8, 2023, which resulted in no deaths or major injuries, but major property destruction at the Brazilian Congress, presidential palace, and headquarters of the top court, the Supreme Federal Tribunal (STF). Bolsonaro had no overt involvement with that riot and was not in Brazil at the time.
The current Brazilian president himself was convicted on multiple appeals and sentenced to over two decades in prison based on significant evidence he had engaged in corruption during his first two terms as president. The STF ultimately overturned the sentence on procedural grounds and allowed him to run for president a third term, but did not offer any new evidence exonerating him of the crimes for which he was convicted. The STF’s election body, the Superior Electoral Tribunal (TSE), later banned calling Lula “corrupt” in media and political events during the campaign,
Lula is expected to travel to the United States this weekend to participate in the United Nations General Assembly. As per tradition, Brazil’s president is the first head of state to speak at the annual event, which grants the leaders of all U.N. member nations an opportunity to address the world on a topic of their choosing. His visit to America is expected to be a tense one as the Trump administration imposed tariffs and sanctions this year on Brazil in response to the prosecution and conviction of Bolsonaro, which the administration regards as a “witch hunt.”
Speaking to the BBC, Lula insisted that Bolsonaro’s conviction was legitimate and that, furthermore, Trump would have faced similar legal action in response to the January 6 protests in Washington should they have happened in Brazil. Lula also denied that he regretted linking Trump with “fascism” and again refused to state he would reach out to Trump for trade discussions, which deteriorated and halted following the Bolsonaro conviction.
“What I find strange is that President Trump instead of, in a civilized way, conversing with Brazil, he made up a political story. He sought to invent a falsehood about a commercial definite,” Lula said. Lula has referred to Trump as a “liar” in the past and disregarded Trump’s invitation to call him to discuss trade at any time.
“Then he said that Bolsonaro is being persecuted, that there is no democracy,” Lula continued. “Brazil has a lot of democracy. In fact, there are many articles published today in the United States showing that Brazil is setting an example of democracy in the world.”
Lula appeared to be referencing an article published in the radical leftist New York Times defending the case against Bolsonaro this week.
“What I said was, if President Trump had done here in Brazil what he did in the Capitol, he would also be judged because here there is justice for everyone,” Lula concluded.
President Trump had spoken at an event in Washington, DC, on the day of the Capitol riot, but did not participate in or encourage riots. Lula did not elaborate on what exactly Trump had “done” that would require prosecution under Brazilian law.
Lula clarified that there is “no relationship” between himself and Trump and went on to disparage him as “uncivilized.” Asked if he regretted referring to Trump as a fascist, he replied, “I said clearly that if I were American I would vote for Biden,” adding that Trump “has had a really bad behavior and has supported anti-democratic people around the world.” Lula did not name which “anti-democratic people” he had in mind.
Elsewhere in the interview, Lula conceded that his relationship to Trump is worse than that with Russian strongman Vladimir Putin, who is wanted under an International Criminal Court (ICC) warrant for war crimes. Lula is close to genocidal Chinese dictator Xi Jinping, who he announced he would call for help with the Brazilian economy after Trump imposed a 50 percent tariff on Brazilian goods. During his previous presidencies, Lula maintained close ties to socialist dictator Hugo Chávez of Venezuela and his successor Nicolás Maduro, socialist Argentine President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, and the communist government of Cuba.
Lula has stated previously that he supports prosecuting Trump. In August, speaking at a public event in Brasilia, he described the sham trial of Bolsonaro and other conservatives as “something that only happens in democratic countries.”
“This is democracy raised to the nth power… They are being judged based on the plea bargains and statements given by people who took part in the coup attempt,” he claimed. “And I’ve said to President Trump: If what happened in the Capitol had happened in Brazil, he would be put on trial here in Brazil, too.”
Bolsonaro, 70, was sentenced a week ago to 27 years in prison and banned from running for public office for eight years, beginning at the end of his prison sentence, for alleged “crimes against democracy.” Bolsonaro has been under house arrest and has not served time in prison due to his poor health resulting largely from an assassination attempt causing significant damage to his digestive system in 2018. Bolsonaro was also diagnosed with anemia and pneumonia this week, as well as skin cancer.
The STF Justice in charge of Bolsonaro’s case — Alexandre de Moraes, who was sanctioned for human rights abuses by the Trump administration in July — levied a complaint on Monday to Brazilian police that Bolsonaro allegedly took too long at the hospital and demanded a detailed explanation for the “delay.” Doctors announced Bolsonaro’s cancer diagnosis shortly thereafter.
In addition to the sanctions on de Moraes, Trump signed an executive order imposing 50 percent tariffs on Brazil and declaring Lula’s government a “national security threat” to the United States for its persecution of political thought. Trump has nonetheless invited Lula to discuss the matter directly on several occasions, which Lula has rejected.
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